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PD: debatable track borderlines07 Jul 2003 17:41
Father To Son - White Queen
I would separate them where the acoustic guitar enters.

March Of The Black Queen - Funny How Love Is
That's maybe the most debatable. The last section of the track is widely considered to be the intro of "Funny...", absolutely not as the outro of "...Black Queen"

Good Company - Bohemian Rhapsody
That trill belong to Good Company more closely.

I agree with the other splitting points of segued songs.

In the LP-s era (correct me if I'm wrong) these track-borderlines were not given. They had to decide about it when they released the CD versions.
1.Sebastian 07 Jul 2003 20:43
I use to think of the violin-like part of the beginning of Track #3 of Queen II (let's don't call it 'White Queen' yet), as a connector between the two songs, more than a part of one of them

The lyrics of lulabies/fireflies part seem to me a lot more connected to 'Black Queen' than to 'Funny', hence, my vote goes for the first

I always considered the trill to be part of GC

yes in LPs there were no borderlines
2.Bohardy 08 Jul 2003 18:13
I think the point is is that in a sense, the track borderlines produced for the CDs (with the exception of albums made during the CD era) are fairly arbitrary for the songs which were originally segued.

On a medium such as vinyl, the idea is more for the listener to listen to the album as a whole, rather than select individual songs to listen to. The introduction of the CD made this a whole lot easier.

When Queen decided to segue songs on Queen II and SHA, they themselves did not necessarily know where one song absolutely ended and the next song absolutely began, because they didn't have to think about it.

15 years down the line when a new technology is produced that HAS to split these songs, there are inevitably going to be issues regarding where to split the songs. Somebody had to make choice there, and unfortunately not everyone is going to agree with it.

However, regarding your examples, there are some absolutes.

Of course Bo Rhap doesn't start with the guitar trills. Everyone knows that. I wonder what version you have PD, where the Bo Rhap track starts like that? I'm not sure my version of ANATO does. The fact that all standalone versions of Bo Rhap have (to my knowledge) never started with these trills proves that the song was not intended to start like that.

There is, on a Japanese Master series CD-single (or something like that) a standalone version of Funny How Love is. i.e., one that is not preceeded by MOTBQ. On this version, it starts, not with the usual piano chords and "forget your singalongs..." as it does on Queen II, but with the acoustic guitars and wall-of-sound that occur just as the final "ahhhh-ahhhh-ahhhhhh" of MOTBQ concludes. On this version, the "ah-ah-ah"s are removed from the mix though.

Thus, the best place to demarcate the MOTBQ and FHLI on the Queen II CD would be at this point, although you would unavoidably hear the final "aaaaah" of MOTBQ at the start of FHLI.

You have a similar problem with FTS/WQ, but to my knowledge no standalone version of WQ exists.

I think it's certain that WQ starts with the violin-guitars, and these are just superimposed over the fade-out of FTS. Therefore, in a sense, the best place to start track 3 on the CD of Queen II would be at the moment these violin-guitars very first appear. However, this would result in an awful lot of FTS being audible on what is meant to be WQ, so a compromise must be reached, namely by cueing track 3 to start a little later on, when most of FTS has faded out, yet the violin-guitars have still not properly 'started'.

There is no right or wrong in this situation.
3.PD 08 Jul 2003 19:38
My ANATO CD is not remastered, it's made in Germany, and the Bohemian Rhapsody starts with the trill. Do all other releases start BR after the trill? If yes, I will have to modify the analysis articles.

WQ: the splitting point proposed by me results in a relatively clear (and "radiofriendly")transition, and also the live version starts that way.

> When Queen decided to segue songs on Queen II and SHA, they themselves
> did not necessarily know where one song absolutely ended and the next
> song absolutely began, because they didn't have to think about it.
It's possible they did know where is the border-line in these songs.
I think it's possible that the MOTBQ has on a different master tape than the "fireflies" intro of FHLI. I don't know...
The borderline between of TPS and LOML is clear, even the changing mixing makes me think that LOML was recorded before the outro of TPS.

4.Sebastian 08 Jul 2003 20:10
I think the fireflies part is written in the lyrics of 'Black Queen' in the CD booklet

yes White Queen started live in the "Intro II", but that's not the only case. Bo Rhap, Somebody (only in Races tour), and Melancholy also started live in their second intro.

My ANATO CD (one of the few I bought) has Bo Rhap beginning on the a capella part

I hadn't thought about the violin intro over the fade out of FTS, but it does make sense. Led made a similar thing with 'Your Time Is Gonna Come'

now it's hard to tell sometimes if those parts belong or not to the actual song. In the case of 'Nevermore' I had that trouble with my site, since at the end of the Track 7 of Queen II the piano motif already starts, so, should we count that as FFMS or Nevermore? specially keeping that when the piano figure begins we can still hear Roger and Fred singing the last scream of Feller's. My decision in that case was that the scream belongs to Master Stroke but the piano belongs to Nevermore, then the song is about 15 secs longer than we think.

Another case was Tenement Funster, it finishes on a G chord which is the exact beginning of 'The Wrist', in that case I consider the chord belongs to both songs, it's the end of one and the beginning of another.
5.BrianMay 14 Jul 2003 05:15
whats so debatable about this. Queen wrote the songs, Queen decides where to end/start the tracks. If the forget your singalongs part is still is in track 9 it's not a part of the next song.

End of sessions!
6.BrianMay 14 Jul 2003 05:17
March Of The Black Queen - Funny How Love Is
"That's maybe the most debatable. The last section of the track is widely considered
to be the intro of "Funny...", absolutely not as the outro of "...Black Queen""

No way! Look in your Queen II booklet, the lyrics are part of Black Queen.
And what makes you think the outro of Black Queen should be a part of Funny how love Is, it's not even close to the style of the rest of the song

7.Sebastian 14 Jul 2003 13:46
exactly, while March is a chain of different sections, Funny is more or less the same all over
8.PD 20 Jul 2003 23:20
OK, you have convinced me about "...Black Queen".

The way how the music before the "fireflies" section ends with slow down with V > I cadence results in a very strong "end of the song" flavor.

Yeah, the band decided where are the borderlines, but as you can see my ANATO CD, they used different borderline between GC and BR. By the way my Queen II booklet does not include lyrics.
9.Sebastian 21 Jul 2003 13:49
it's possible that different releases had different borderlines, but what you said is interesting. My version of 'Opera' is from the United States
10.BrianMay 22 Jul 2003 04:02
PD where did you get that version of ANATO?
For a collector like me, thats very interesting
11.PD 22 Jul 2003 08:48
I bought it in a local CD shop ca. 10 years ago. It's made in West Germany and not remastered. The track length of Bohemian Rhapsody is 5:59 which is also printed on the back sleeve.

its code is CDP 7 46207 2
12.Sebastian 03 Oct 2004 20:40
The Black Queen discussion is on queenzone now. I did a little research here and there and found out the 80s CD versions have Funny starting in fireflies, but 1998 correct it. And by correct it does seem that the truly beginning is in the ostinato piano lick.
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