HOME FORUM

Login






Register
Search
List of users


PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS FORUM IS TAKEN FROM PREVIOUS VERSION OF QUEEN SONGS SITE.
Path: Queen Songs - Forum - Song Analysis: Analysis of Non Queen Songs Part IIIBookmark and Share

Forum

--- Only registered users can post a message ---pages 1
Sebastian: Analysis of Non Queen Songs Part III13 Feb 2004 14:56

That's it for now, I already have the articles about Civil War and So Fine but I'll post them later. So:

------

NOVEMBER RAIN

Composer (s): W. Axl Rose
Arranger (s): Guns N Roses & Johan Langlie
Key (s): B Major (5 sharps), B Minor (2 sharps)
Meter (s): 4/4

Recording ‘Use Your Illusion’ Guns N’ Roses lost a little its identity as a band but at the same time each member had the freedom to explore the territories he wanted to and many songs the band was saving for six years or more finally saw the light of day. The most legendary is this one, certainly one of the most respected and admired pieces of rock music.

A lot of history surrounds November Rain. It was written in early to mid eighties by Axl, and it was apparently a much longer version (Slash mentioned it was 25 minutes long, but it’s most likely an exaggeration). Rose wasn’t just a punk lover, he also felt big admiration for people like Elton John (weird choice for someone who’s supposedly homophobic) and was rather fond of Queen’s second album (fulfilled with progressive and art influenced tracks), as well as a huge Led Zeppelin fan. Perhaps the 83-85 versions of November Rain were way too similar to some tracks of those artists and hence Axl had to re-write it over and over until he could do a completely Rose-esque version, instead of a rhapsody of Page, Mercury and John trademarks. There’s a nice demo of the song in which there’s no piano and instead the main instrument is an acoustic guitar played by Izzy.

But the story doesn’t end there. The song was performed live for the first time in May 29th 1991 (by possibly the best line-up they had ever), and two weeks later it was a heavily bootlegged song. Thousands of people already loved it three months before it was released. Later on it’d be an everlasting and fundamental part of the live sets (as Axl’s piano number, sometimes performed with Slash on acoustic guitar in late 1993). In Colombia it was a #1 hit for over a year, and it’s very interesting that when the band performed the song in Bogotá (in NOVEMBER 30th 1992) it started to RAIN.

 Chords:

In spite of all the respect the song has acquired, it’s not as complex as it might look like. Certainly it’s like a symphony compared to most pop rock classics (from Dust In The Wind to All The Small Things, from Tutti Frutti to Rock N’ Roll All Night), but it’s not extremely complicated although highly creative and awesomely produced. All the chords used are:

A B B7 Bm  C#m  D  D#m 
E F# G G#m  G#m/D#  G#m/F#

Just thirteen chords, only one with seventh and only two slash chords. They’re grouped in the following twelve chord progressions:

A (4)--> E > C#m > B > B
A’ (4)--> E > G#m/D# > C#m > B > B
A’’  (6)--> E > G#m/D# > C#m > B > B > B
B (4)--> C#m > F# > B > B
C (8)--> E > F#  > E > F# > E > F# > E > F#
C’ (9)--> E > F#  > E > F# > E > F# > E > F# > F#
D (4)--> D#m – E > B > D#m – E > C#m
D’ (5)--> D#m – E > B > D#m – E > F# > F#
E (4)--> B – D#m > G#m – G#m/F# > E > F#
E’ (5)--> B – D#m > G#m – G#m/F# > E > F# > B
F (4) --> B7 > B7 > G > A
G (5) --> Bm – F# > E – D > G – A > Bm > Bm

 Song form:

E Chord – Intro – Instrumental Verse – Verse – Bridge – Verse’ – Bridge – Chorus – Break I – Solo (Verse & Bridge) – Chorus – Solo (Verse) – Verse – Bridge – Break II – Spacer – Coda – Bm Chord

E Chord – A’ A A’’ – A A – A A – B B – A A A – B B B – C – D D’ – A A B B – C’ – A A – A A – B B – E E’ – F F F F – G G G G G G – Bm Chord

Note Axl’s clever use of variations in both sections and chord progressions. The form is very creative as well. It’s arranged for symphonic orchestra (emulated in synths by Axl and Johann), and rock band (electric guitars, drums, electric bass).
Grand piano (played by Axl) is the main instrument and the one in which the song was written. Lead vocal is performed in a unique rough way, according to Rose himself it was one of the main points of interest in the song, since everybody thinks he/she can sing it better, and feels part of the song. Matt’s drums were done in very few takes, which caused a superb first impression in his bandmates.

The vast number of sharp notes is caused by the way they tuned instruments (one half step down), so the band actually played in F (1 flat), Dm (1 flat), Em (1 sharp), C (no flats or sharps) and Cm (3flats). The few use of slash chords suggests that Axl was perhaps more influenced by Elton John than Freddie Mercury in the song writing.

 Intro:

Scored for piano and strings, with percussion overdubs and a synth noise at the end. There’s also a synth bad very in the background. Strings just play a melody in parallel octaves, with  very occasional inclusion of thirds and fifths. Piano does a simple pattern of chords and easy arpeggios in the right hand, octave bass in the left hand. Three variations of the main chord progression are included in this section. The first of them is based on descending bass (E D# C# B), not a surprising feature since both Elton and Freddie (and many other artists like Billy Joel) used it a lot. At the very end there’s a drum fill introducing the next section.

Verses:

The first of the six is instrumental. The arrangement adds bass and drums, strings keep the parallel octaves and piano is still playing the arpeggios and chord-bass-chord patterns. Note Duff’s nice melodic bass arrangement. At the end there’s a synth flute playing a little melody that would appear later. At the beginning of both B chords a clean guitar (Izzy) strums the chord once.

The second verse (and all the sung ones) add an interesting diatonic descending vocal harmony. It’s unison and sung by Izzy, Duff and Shannon Hoon (kind of another band member during the recordings of the album). The clean guitar makes arpeggios now. Third verse adds the flute at the beginning and arpeggios made by the clean guitar from before, plus an acoustic played by Slash. Sixth verse is the same but dropping the flute.

Fourth and fifth verses are guitar solos. Izzy’s guitar keeps making arpeggios. Fourth adds some interesting synth pad arpeggios all throughout, Slash’s lead guitar is harmonised at the end. Fifth verse maintains a similar arrangement, although the solo melody is different. Slash claims he had all those solos in his head before the recording.


Bridge:

All sung bridges have the same settings, with acoustic guitar as well as Izzy’s clean rhythm, Duff’s bass, Matt’s drums, Axl’s piano and synth. The parallel modulation isn’t rare in the Guns N’ Roses songbook, Civil War is another notable example. The instrumental bridge (part of the solo) adds a nice synth harp in the background.

Chorus:

Only two in this track, the second being the extension of the first. Arrangement is the same for both: acoustic, clean electric, piano, synth strings, bass and drums. The first includes Slash doubling the rhythm guitar in overdrive.

Break I:

One of the best sounding parts of the song, Slash’s overdriven rhythm still plays and also the lead guitar appears doing some fills which introduce the solo. Interesting modulation to vii , which is not very usual. This section is based on two variations of the same progression. The latter ends in F# to come back to the E Major key.

Break II:

The song modulates to IV and again two variations of the same progression form the section. Izzy’s guitar is now distorted and playing power chords, synth pads complement the arrangement. Again there’s a short descending bass line cliché, which causes another appearance of a slash chord (G#m/F# in this case).

Spacer:

Interestingly the song doesn’t end in that B chord the orchestra hits at the end of the second break. After a short pause Axl’s piano starts playing a fast riff (alternating B and B7 chords, then playing G and A), joined by synth strings, Izzy’s distorted power chords and Matt’s military drum playing. Two more layers of synth sounds enter through the end.

Coda:

It’s 30 measures long and the key is modulated to the parallel (iv – B minor). A section of total wildness, maintained by a precise, mathematical rhythm section (Izzy’s power chords, Duff’s bass, Matt’s drums). Synths appear occasionally, Axl’s piano becomes crazier doing a couple of glissandos sporadically but in the fifth repetition there are two measures full of them. Slash plays a much celebrated guitar solo, following his “just sit on the one, stay on the one note, it sounds good - and then start to branch out in the next couple of bars” philosophy. Backing vocals are done in octaves again, double tracked Axl in the low octave. The high one has different line-up in the two halves. First one “don’t you think … everybody needs somebody” is a unison choir of Axl, Shannon, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Izzy, Stuart Bailey and Reba Shaw. “You’re not the only one” is Axl’s lead vocal, who was screaming at the beginning of the section. At the end it all calms down, synth strings play the Bm chord, some additional noises (a new age pad and some storm environment sounds) complete the outro.

1.PD 13 Feb 2004 22:54

Nice work Seb!

Could not resist to run through the song at least briefly.
Don't worry about the different transcription of the form is partly a matter of my personal interpretation. What I transcribed as Verse could have been parsed to Verse-Chorus, but the transition is so smooth between the two that I kept them in one section.
The keys: tad disorienting that except the Coda none of the  phrases start with the tonic.
Chords: until the Coda we have function-wise the six diatonic basic chords peppered with a few inversions. The most interesting progression is the one in the Coda.
I guess the song was written and performed guitar wise in F (more open chords), but they tuned down the guitars by a half step.
Phrasing: predominantly four-squared with many chord-wise double-phrases but the melody variants save the song from turning repetitive. The only uneven phrase is the Coda-progression
The arrangement is surprisingly detailed. There is much nice details to discover in it.
The song is one of Axl's three epics the other two being Coma and Estranged. Those are harmony-and form-wise more complex pieces.

Form:  

Intro  | Verse (AABB) | Verse'(AAABB) |
       | Bridge I(CC)-II(DD') | Solo 1 (AABB)|
       | Bridge I' | Solo 2 (AA) | Verse (AABB'EE)|
       | pre-Coda | Coda (FFFFFF') | 


Key: B Major, b minor

Intro
B:
| E    |(maj7)|
| IV   | -    |

| E    |G#m/D#| C#m  | B    |
| IV   | vi   | ii   | I    |

| E    | C#m  | B    | -    |
| IV   |  ii  | I    | -    |

| E    |G#m/D#| C#m  | B    | -    | -    |
| IV   | vi   | ii   | I    | -    | -    |

| Emaj7|G#m/C#|B(sus4)| -    |
| IV   | vi   | I     | -    |

| Emaj7|G#m/C#| B    | -    |
| IV   | vi   | I    | -    |


Verse

/----------- 2x ------------
| Emaj7| C#m  | B    | -    |
| IV   | ii   | I    | -    |

/----------- 2x ------------
| C#   | F#   | B    | -    |
| ii   | V    | I    | -    |


Bridge I

/----------- 2x -----------
| E   | F#   | E    | F#   |
| IV  | V    | IV   | V    |


Bridge II

| D#m E | B    | D#m E | C#m  |
| iii IV| I    | iii IV| ii   |

| D#m E | B    | D#m E | F#   | -    |
| iii IV| I    | iii IV| V    | -    |


Solo 1

/----------- 2x -----------
| E   | C#m  | B    | -    |
| IV  | ii   | I    | -    |

/---------- 2x ------------
| C#m | F#   | B    | -    |
| ii  | V    | I    | -    |



Verse-B'EE:

/--------------- 2x --------------
| B D#m/A# | G#m F# | E    | F#   |
| I iii    | vi  V  | IV   | V    |

| B  fermata  |
| I           |


b:
pre-Coda
/----- 4x -----
| Bm   | G  A  |
| i    | VI VII|

Coda-solo

/--------------- 6x -----------------
| Bm  F# | E  D | G  A | Bm   | -    |
| i   V  |IV V/G|VI VII| i    | -    |


Can you still belive me that I don't have time for song analysis?

PS: an article about Rush songs.
www.stetina.com

2.Alejandro 14 Feb 2004 17:38
Hi

Nice work Sebastian, Now I can see that November Rain is more complex than I have ever expected, but I have a couple of questions:

1. What scales did Slash use on the guitar solos?
2. Why did you put All THE SMALL THINGS AS A classic, It is horrible and in five years no one will remember it, that is not a classic
3. Is november rain the most complex song of Guns n Roses?

PS: All the small things and all the blink 182 songs are hideous , I hate all of them.
3.Sebastian 14 Feb 2004 21:34
Hi Ale, didn´t expect to see you here :)

I really want to do the GnR site, but I'm stuck with Bechstein Debauchery and to be honest I lost interest in it. But somehow I'll have to finish it in this six week period, then I'll rest
4.PD 29 Feb 2004 09:51

I post two of my unfinished analyses I wrote last year.
First is Pet Sounds: only two songs...
The second one is "Supers Ready", a 22 minutes-long Genesis composition with sometimes frustratingly hard to analyse chord-functions. Unfinished.



Beach Boys: Pet Sounds (1966)
Album/track info:
www.cabinessence.com


1) Wouldn't It Be Nice
Key: A Major, F Major, D Major
4/4: shuffle beat

Intro | Verse | Verse | Break | Bridge (Intro) |
 | h.i. Verse'| Outro-tag |


 
Intro:

| A F#m | Bm7/A D |
| I  vi | ii   IV |

| A F#m | Am C |
| I vi  |
      F:| iii V |

Verse:

/----------- 2x -------------
| F   | -   | Bb /A | Gm7 C7 |
| I   | -   | IV    | ii  V  |

| Dm  | D#/F | Dm/A | Am7  | Gm7  | C7   |
| vi  | ?    | vi   | iii  | ii   | V    |

Break:

| F   | -   |
| I   | -   |


Bridge:

| D    | G    | D/F# | Bm7  |
| I    | IV   | I    | vi   |

| Dmaj7| G    | D/F# | Bm7  |

| D/F# | Bm7  | D/F# | C    |


half-instrumental Verse'

| F   | -   | -   | -   |
| I...

| F   | -   |

| Dm/A | D#/F | Dm/A | Am7  | Gm7  | Am7  | Gm7  | C7  |

Outro-tag:

| F  | -  | -  | -  |
| -  | -  | -  | -  |
| -  | -  | -  | -  |


You Still Believe In Me
4/4
Form: Intro (A) | Verse | Verse'| Bridge (AAA-AA)|


Intro:

| B1  | -   | -   | B   |
| I...


Verse:

/----------- 2x ---------
| B   C#m F# | -   | -   |
| I   ii  V  | -   | -   |

| E  B7 A | -    | G#   | -   |

| C#m7 | -   | B/C#  | E6/B G#m7 | G    |


Bridge (Intro)

/------------ 2x ------------
| B C#m F# | -   | -   | -   |
| I  ii  V | - ...



Genesis: Supper's Ready (1972)

Genesis formed in the late sixties, and became one of the 3-4 most respected progressive rock bands. They released strings of classic albums in the seventies, one of these is Foxtrott (1972) with a 22 minutes epic song "Supper's Ready". In fact it's a segued chain of seven songs with dramatic changes that closes with a reprise of the main theme.

Lover's Leap
Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man
Ikhnaton and Itsacon and Their Band Of Merry Men
How Dare I Be So Beautiful?
Willow Farm
Apocalypse in 9/8
As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs (Aching Men's Feet)

More about the song:
www.genesis-midi.com


Scenes by scenes:

Lover's Leap:
-------------
The song starts without intro. This first scene has relatively normal song-like structure:

| Verse | Chorus || Verse | Chorus | Verse 2 |

instrumental:

| Instr. 1 - synth solo 1 -  - synth 2 |

Verse:
The phrasing is square 16 measures ABAC. Guitar arpeggios provide the harmonic backing. The lead vocal is octave harmonized in the Verses. The chords creat an ambiguos tonality. The last phrase of the verse is in Bb, which is the homekey of the Chorus. Note the Bsus4 > B > Bm progression. Something like that can be found in Polar Beer (Smile, 1968) and on a Radiohead song on "OK Computer", but here it is in a more ambigous harmony. No drums throughout the section (only some triangle notes)


| Am6  | -    | Bsus4 | B    |
|(biii)| -    | IV    | -    |

| Bm   | -    | Gb    | Gb/Bb |
| iv   | -    | I     | -     |

| Am6  | -    | Bsus4 | B    |
|(biii)| -    | IV    | -    |

 | Ebm/Bb | F7/A F7 | Bb   | -    |
Gb: iii   |
Bb: iV    | V       | I    | -    |


Not only the harmonic rhythm, but also the melodic rhythm is very similar between A and B phrases. Note the 3+3+2 figures in the lead vocal and the bass. Note the stepwise ascending bass against the descending lead vocal.


Chorus:
It consists of two paralell phrases. The sub-phrasing is ABAC.

| Eb/Bb | Bb    | Adim  | Bb   |
| IV    | I     | "V"   | I    |

| Eb    | Bb/F  | Gbdim7 | Gm7 | -   |
| IV    | I     | vii/vi | vi  | -   |

The first Chorus is followed by an instrumental connector:

| Asus4 | A     | Asus4 | A    |

The harmony is moved away from Bb Major, but the new key of A Major cannot be established by a sus4 > M3 figure which is even weaker than a plagal cadence.  The Asus4 > A > Am progression (Am that starts the next Verse) is similar what we saw in B.

Verse 2:
For some reason it's not really a Bridge. In style it's too close to the Verse 1 (no octave harmony though). 3+3+2 figures dominate the arpeggios and also note the short triplets.

| Gm  | Gm79  | -   | Gm  |

/---- 2x ---
| G/D | D   |

| Am  | -   | -   | -   |


Instrumental

The acoustic guitar arpeggios combine droning chord ( Dm(7) - which is the tonic ) with built in figures of dotted/syncopated rhythm. These built in figures go into parallel two part harmony with alternating intervals in each four measure: one of the guitars repeat the same figure, the other guitar harmonizes it alternating a sixth and a third above that.
The repeated guitar figure is eight measure long with AABB form created by the above described alternating harmony intervals.
1: only guitars
2: crescendo vocal harmony (in fourths and octaves then in thirds and octaves)
3: vocal harmonies + synth, this round is extended AABBB
4: synth solo starts, no vocal harmonies
5: synth solo continued until third phrase. At the BB figures start strange electric guitar harmonies with each note crescendo-ed with volume controll.
6: guitar hamonies continued. the droning bass is temporarly broken ( A instead of D) for only the third phrase.
7: synth arpeggios plus flute. The last B phrase is abandoned.

Next two measure: the repeated guitar figure is shifted down a whole step.
Next four measure: a mini solo on synth.

| Gm   | -    | Eb   | -    |

The next eigh measure has similar guitarfigures to A and B, this time opon Am chord.  

------------------------------

| Verse 3 | Verse 3 | Chorus 2 | Chorus 2 | Break

| instr Verse 1 | Verse 4 | Instr 2. | DD | gtr Solo | Connector |

| Vesre 5 | Verse 5 | silent section - Verse 6

5.Sebastian 29 Feb 2004 14:27
Sorry PD I hadn't seen you edited your first answer:

> I guess the song was written and performed guitar wise in F (more open chords), but they tuned down the guitars by a half step.

At least I'm sure the piano was tuned half step down, for what I can see in the concerts.

> The arrangement is surprisingly detailed. There is much nice details to discover in it.

That's one of the strongest points of that band. That's why I love them so much

> The song is one of Axl's three epics the other two being Coma and Estranged.

I'm definetely going to make more analysis of GnR songs, the last one will be Coma. Slash also credited it to himself. In spite of having less albums, they contradicted much more than Queen in "who wrote what" issues. In this particular band we find a lot of songs that are only from one person but credited in the album to two. 'You Could Be Mine' is widely considered by band members and fans as a song by Izzy, while it's credited to both Axl and him. What is sure is that they collaborated a lot in the songwriting process, Slash with the riffs and solos, Axl with the structures, lyrics and arrangements. This analyses are in a different approach to yours, in the fact that they cover too the "who wrote/who arranged / who played / who sang" issues, but is less "scientific" in the pure theoretical parts.

I already have 'Civil War' and 'So Fine' but I'll post them later.
6.PD 29 Feb 2004 18:21
> This analyses are in a different approach to yours, ...
> is less "scientific" in the pure theoretical parts
 I like the formal/phrasing/harmonic analysis because it gives a nice map of the framework, and it's quite visual, not for just experts. You can quickly recognise which song is simple and which is sophisticated in these points of view. I have read many music analyses but their approach was hardly reminiscent of mine, (which in fact copies Pollack's articles). Take this Beach Boys analysis:
www.cabinessence.com
I really miss the functions, and the formal analysis.
7.Sebastian 01 Mar 2004 00:39
To be honest, I'm glad you're taking a break. Don't get me wrong, I love your articles and my patience plays hard on me when I long for the next articles (specially 'Masterstroke'). But for one side you get the change to correct a lot of details in the finished ones, which I consider really important because you're the first and only one who has made that so far, and it wouldn't be fair to create more fake legends as happened years ago with QMS and the bijou database (concerning songwriters)

By other side a good break can refresh and clear your mind (you can "sense" when you're ready to re-start, it can be matter of days, weeks, months, years...).
8.PD 03 Mar 2004 07:15
I get your point. I don't know at the moment whether I'll do complete revisions (as I did with Bicycle Race) or just rephrase some wrong points. For soon the latter is more probable.
At the moment I don't sense my mind is getting clearer. I feel myself in form when I do articles one after another.
9.Sebastian 03 Mar 2004 13:34
Yeah rephrasing the wrong points would be a better idea right now. You could revise the articles gradually or perhaps when you are done with all of them.
10.Sebastian 13 Mar 2004 02:12

Another one, as a personal favor to my best friend:

ETERNAL FLAME

Composer (s): Susana Hoffs (a very hot girl btw), Billy Steinberg & Tom Kelly
Arranger (s): David White & David Lyndley
Released: 1988 (#1 in the UK, top ten in USA)
Key (s): G Major, D Major, E Minor
Meter (s): 4/4

This is a very interesting pop classic (sometimes way overaired according to most people) that marked the beginning of the end of 'Bangles' as a band. First of all an introduction in time and space, about the three songwriters:

Susanna Hoffs is the rhythm guitsrist of the band 'Bangles', a girl quartet of Beatlemaniacs. That one was a band of singers. For rule, the (main) songwriter of the song or the person who had the idea of recording it (in case of a cover) had to sing lead vocals while the other three organised themselves for harmonies. 100% of their songs were done that way. Susanna admitted that one of the major reasons the band was disolved was that rule.

Tom Kelly was the lead singer of REO Speedwagon, an interesting American band (remember the 80s hit 'Keep The Fire Burning'?). Billy Steinberg is a professional songwriter. He worked with a lot of pop artists, including Celine Dion (he wrote Falling Into You), Withney Houston ('So Emotional'), Cindy Lauper ('Unconditional Love'). Together with Tom he wrote some songs for Madonna and Tina Turner too.

The song is very emotional, specially the bridge takes my breath away. The participation of the band is minimal though, at least instrumentally (only a guitar solo by Vicky Petterson, the rest is done by session musicians, plus the producer and an orchestra). Vocally Susanna took the lead vocal and the other three sang three part harmonies, arranged by the producer again.

Songform:

Intro - Verse - Verse - Bridge - Solo (2nd Part Of Verse) - Bridge - Verse - Verse - Verse ... (fade out)

Intro: | G/D | C | x 2
Verse: | G - Em | C - D | x2   |Em - B|Em - A|D - Bm|Am|
Bridge: |D - F|G - D|F - G|C C/B Am C/G|D Bm|C|D|

To be continued...

11.PD 14 Mar 2004 20:55

Yeah this is definitely a pop-classic, and I like it too.

Intro | Verse | Verse | Bridge |
     | Solo (Verse II)| Bridge |
      | Verse | Verse | Verse | Verse | Verse (fade out)|


The form is the two bridge model, with lots of verses. The repetitive form is saved by melody variants and always changing arrangement.
The harmony is also quite interesting.
 
Intro:

| G/D sus4 | -     |
|  I...



Verse:

G:
/------- 2x --------
| G  Em7 | Cadd9  D |
| I   vi |  IV    V |


the first phrase uses the good old 1-6-4-5 cliché, the rest of the song is has more unusual chord progressions.
IMO a good pop-song has to combine clichés and creative harmonic features. Like this song.

The next phrase with no tonic takes a strong step toward the relative minor key (e minor),

| Em  B7 | Em(7) A7 | D  Bm7 |
| vi V/vi| vi   V/V | V  iii |


Em7 is used in only one of the Verses creating a chromatic descending inner voice.

| C(sus2) | -     |
| IV      | -     |


Bridge:

D:
| D  F/D | G/D  D |
| I  bIII| IV   I |


the first phrase goes with pedal bass

|  F6  G  | C      |
D:bIII IV | bVII   |
C: IV  V  | I      |


this phrase with strong cadentical progression hijackes the harmony to C Major for a moment, then we are back again to D, but not very convincing:

|  D  Bm7 | F/C    C   |
D: I  vi  |V/bVII bIII |

| D      |
| I      |

12.Sebastian 15 Mar 2004 01:32

I see you saved me the work of correcting and finishing it :)

So, this is Surrender, by my favourite album ever, by a very underrated singer called Roger Meddows Taylor:

Form:

|Intro | Verse | Bridge | Chorus | Spacer |
        |Verse | Bridge | Chorus x 2 | Alternate Bridge | Chorus | Chorus | Chorus | Ending |

This song is very simple and yet wonderful. I really love it. Typical Roger-esque approach of having different melodies over the same chord progression. In this case all the main sections except the verse are done over the C F Am G progression. The verses are just in one chord (Em). The spacer is one measure in G and that's it.

Intro:

It's two measures long, and it's just percussive so we can't choose a key in here. I think live versions do have harmonic instruments, they play the Em chord.

Verse:

It's eight measures long, and the arrangement is more or less the same for both. First half is more simple in instrumental support while second half adds more, to create a nice contrast. The last measure is a capella ("not a wife" & "there ain't much here")

Bridge:

It's also eight measure long and features and over the same plan: first half is sung by Treana with some synth backing, second half adds guitars, bass, drums and a double tracked harmony. Exactly the same trick is used in the chorus of 'Feeling This' by Blink 182.

Chorus:

Gets much more intense in the drums. The first one is sung by Roger, then Jonathan adds the harmony. The second one (done twice) adds Treana's voice too. When the choruses are repeated near the end you can just hear the "can't reach me can't reach me..." (or "can't hurt me..." in the live versions) in the background. That's another similarty with 'Feeling This' (in which at the end the choruses are joined by one alternate melody in hocket).

Alternate Bridge:

I didn't know how else should I call it. Well, it's again rhythmical only in the support, and has some nice multi-tracked vocals. At the end Treana's marvelous voice marks the bond with the next chorus.

13.Sebastian 19 Mar 2004 17:35

Talking about Blink, let's see some of their songforms:

---------------------------------------

Adam's Song:

Intro - Verse - Spacer - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Spacer - Chorus
Break - Chorus

Spacer--> Instrumental Half Chorus

---------------

All The Small Things:

Intro - Verse - Verse - Chorus
        Intro - Verse - Chorus
        Break - Chorus- Chorus'


---------

Feeling This

Intro  - Verse  - Chorus
Spacer - Verse - Chorus x 2
Bridge I - Bridge II - Chorus x 5


Intro and Verse are all the time over the same riff
Bridge II follows the Chorus progression

------------

What's My Age Again:

Intro I - Intro II - Verse - Chorus
          Intro I  - Verse - Chorus
          Break    - Chorus- Chorus'


Intro II is the same as Intro I but adding bass and drums
Chorus' is just instrumental except for the last measure

----------

Stay Together For The Kids

Intro - Verse - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Chorus
Break - Chorus- Chorus


3rd Chorus is instrumental

-----------------

First Date:

Intro I - Intro II - Intro II - Verse - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
                     Intro II - Verse - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
                                        Break - Bridge - Chorus - Chorus


-----------------

Josie:

Intro - Verse - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
                Verse - Bridge - Chorus - Chorus
Intro - Chorus - Chorus


---------------

Rock Show:

Intro I - Intro II - Verse
           Intro I - Verse - Chorus
           Intro I - Verse - Chorus
                     Bridge- Chorus'

----------------

Dammit:

Intro I - Intro II - Verse
        - Intro I  - Verse - Chorus
        - Intro I  - Verse - Chorus
Bridge  - Intro I'


Intro I includes vocals except for the first one it was done

14.PD 09 Apr 2004 20:57

Today I checked out some Ventures and Tornados records.
Some  interesting, partly Beatles-related observations:

Ventures: "Walk Don't Run" (1960), and "Perfidia" (1961) both end with (harmonic) guitar feedback (don't think of something big). These endings are very similar, intentionally, and the use of feedback is also a part of the game I guess. Note: Beatles's "I Feel Fine" is widely considered as the first intentional guitar feedback. Lennon also was quoted as thinking so. Other posters in the google newsgroups mentioned following early examples:
Bo Diddley: no particular song
Freddy King: no particular song
Paul Burlinson: Train Kept Rollin': ?
Ike Turner's "Rocket 88" (1951): ?
Link Wray: Rumble - bad example IMO ("...pencil holes in the speaker")
The Yardbirds (1964): I'm A Man - bad example IMO
The Who: Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere (1964) - momentary guitar noise generated by cranked up amps, but no feedback.
Spike Jones: His speciality was bringing special noises into the music ("Seaside Rendezvous" also shows the influence of this style). I couldn't find any of his track featuring guitar feedback.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Tornados: "Love And Fury" (1962), "Live On Venus" (1963), "All Stars In The Sky" (196?) start with fade in. Fade in is a studio lick that is also considered to be a Beatles first (Eight Days A Week- 1964-65).

Both guitar bands and their studio crew were experimenting with new noises and guitar sounds. They both used many simple chord progressions and a couple of unusual ones.

Tornados: "Ridin The Wind"
It's in b minor. Interesting changes:

F > Bm
C > D > E ("chord stream")


"Love And Fury":

I > bVII > V
I > bVII > vi (almost sounds like an "aolean cadence")
IV > V > VI ("chord stream")


Ventures: "Driving Guitar" (1962) features nice guitar lick with flanging harmonics. Active bassline.
"Slaughter On The 10th Avenue": starts with slided dim7 chords. Ocassionally scalar bassline (reminds me of the one in "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon"). Starts in D Major, the contrasting middle eight is in Eb Major, then the "Verse" theme returns in C Major, then it shifts up to Db major.
"House Of The Rising Sun": a "modern" distorted guitar sound.
"Caravan": a Les Paul-esque guitar work.

15.Bohardy 10 Apr 2004 15:59
Regarding the feedback intro to I Feel Fine, I can't remember where I read it, but there's a school of thought that argues that rather than being feedback, the noise is simply the result of George (or is it John) pressing his thumbnail lightly against the vibrating string.

I seem to remember the article stating it as being fact that this was how the noise was produced. It certainly does sound like it was done that way when you replicate the technique yourself.
16.PD 10 Apr 2004 17:05
> the noise is simply the result of George (or is it John) pressing
> his thumbnail lightly against the vibrating string
Definitely. I remember figuring out this thumb-touch "effect" by myself when I had been playing the guitar for just some weeks or so. The sustain is the result of the feedback, but the harmonics are created the aforementioned way. The "I Feel Fine" intro hardly reminds one of the "usual" feedback, where the the harmonics supress the original pitch.
Technically it IS feedback because the noise coming from the amps keep the strings ringing.
17.Sebastian 01 May 2004 13:47

Barcelona:

Instr Chorus`` - Intro II - Verse - Pre-Chorus - Chorus
                            Verse - Pre-Chorus`- Chorus`


La Japonaise

Intro     - Chorus   - Verse - Interlude I - Chorus`  - Bridge
            Chorus`` - Verse - InterludeII - Chorus```


The Fallen Priest

Intro   - Verse   - Chorus
Intro`  - BridgeI - Bridge II
Intro`` - Verse   - Chorus`
Intro```- Break   - Intro ````


Ensueno:

Intro   - Verse      - Bridge - Chorus
Intro`  - Inst Verse`- Bridge`
* Intro - First part of verse


The Golden Boy:

Inst Verse - Verse` - Bridge - "Gospel" - Bridge`- Bridge`` - Verse``

Guide Me Home:

Intro  - Verse - Chorus
Intro` - Verse - Chorus
* Intro = Verse


How Can I Go On

Intro - Verse - Chorus
        Verse`- Chorus - Outro


---------------

Some comments:

It`s interesting how the least complex song, in terms of form (and perhaps harmony too), is left at the end as a kind of "rest". In several Queen albums a number like that was put, not in the matter that it was the most simple in the album, but it was somehow less over-layered and more direct and relaxing: God Save The Queen, Seven Seas Of Rhye..., My Melancholy Blues, Is This The World We Created, More Of That Jazz (debatable)

In terms of form, harmony and arrangements we find similarties respect Mercury`s last compositions:

La Japonaise has an Interlude section each time bigger and "busier" (Was It All Worth It)
How Can I Go On has sung/speech duet in the second bridge/chorus (The Miracle)
Fallen Priest uses four variations of the intro, just like WIAWI
Fallen Priest & Barcelona use some variation of the flamenco cadence, like Worth It & Innuendo

There are some nice lyrical cross-references with latter Queen albums as well:

"I want it all" - Fallen Priest
"I love you madly" - Rachmaninov`s Revenge (WIAWI says "we loved you madly")
"To yourself" Fallen Priest / Innuendo

18.PD 16 May 2004 21:06
Pre-Beatles pop-music is one of my favourite era to analyse. Beatles' songwriting is extremly well analysed in sharp contrast with pre-Beatles songwriters, and it often results in an unhealthy situation where many tend to credit the whole harmonic, sonic and formal "revolution" in ppo/rock music to the Fab Four alone. I think the Beatles really wrote harmony-wise the most interestings song but the contest is way more closer then many think.

A related discussion:
groups.google.co.hu


This time I analyse the early (-1964) period of Roy Orbison, who influenced among others the Beatles too. Orbison not only had a distinct voice, he was a talented songwriter too. This analyis focuses only to the harmony, but the formal side of Orbison's songwriting is also noteworthy in context of his time. Beside some curious chord progressions I also noticed the use of iii chords (which is the least often used of the six "normal" diatonic chords).


Ooby Dooby: "Tutti-Frutti" cover.

Uptown: bluesy 3-4 chord song. Triplets.

Only The Lonely: 1-2-4-5. Half measures, a trademark of Orbisons songwriting. Relative non-repetitive melody.

I'm Hurtin (1960): it's very close to "Only The Lonely".

Legend In My Time (1960): three chords Verse. Bridge: chain of fiths: III > VI > II > V > I

Blue Angel (1960): The Verses are straight doo-wop cliche. There is a strange short instrumental connector leading to the Bridge.
IV > ii > I ... first it sounds like a modulation to IV. IV > V/V. Irregular harmonic rhythm sound like 3-4 half-measures close to each other. Also some Orbison-favored triplets.

I Can't Stop Loving You (1960): simple song with 3-4 chords... bIII in the outro

Running Scared: starts like "O sole mio", but the progression is altered: I > ii > iii "chord stream". Shortened uneven phrases.

Crying (1961): I > I+ > IV > iv > I, iii,

Leah (1962): I > bII (the Neapolitan chord - rarely used - Phrygian flavour), VII > I, i > V7 >I, shift up, outro: harmonies with rising inversions (see also in "You're My Best Friend").

Mama (1962): 2/4 shuffle beat. Uneven phrasing. Curious chords: IV > iv, V > V+ > I, iii,

Working For The Man (1962): it's in C Major, but the Verses are in a minor. I suspect direct influence on the Verses of Things We Said Today (Beatles).

In Dreams (1963): most of the song goes with 1-6-4-5 cliche and simple chords. Interesting is I > II > ii (> V) progression which resembles to the curious I > II > IV ( > I) progression. Bridge: I > iv > I > (bII > I).

Candy Man: Simple bluesy song.

Falling (1963): triplets, simple chords except a D > Db/D > D (or D > Ddim7 > D)

Blue Bayou (1963): three chords song + bVII appears shortly as passing chord.

Pretty Paper (1963): simple chords, four-square phrasing.

It's Over (1964): iii, vi > IV > V/V,
Intro in C, Verse in F, Bridges in C Major. Again half measures and triplets.

Oh Pretty Woman (1964): I suspect this song must have influenced Day Tripper: the riff and the thickening arrangement of the intro. Again we have a half measure. Chorus modulates to bVI then its extension modulates back ( C > E ) in a rather unusual/clever way.




Overall observations: no bVII chord except a passing appearamnce in "Blue Bayou". Many half measures and shortened phrases, and triplets belong to Orbison's songwriting trademarks.
19.Sebastian 17 May 2004 14:04

No Violins

Intro - Verse - Bridge
        Chorus- Bridge
        Verse - Bridge
        Chorus- Bridge - Chorus (fade)


*Intro has arpeggios. Note that except for the intro and outro it`s always something+bridge. I love the into. It`s awesome

------------

Laugh Or Cry 

         Verse - Bridge - Chorus - Spacer
Verse`-  Solo  - Bridge - Chorus`
         Verse - Bridge - Chorus


* This song couldn`t be more Bowie-esque. I`m pretty sure the piano in this one and `No Violins` is David Richards. Awesome guitar solo by Rog.

-----------

Future Management:

Intro(Riff) - Chorus - Verse
              Chorus - Verse - Bridge
              Chorus (fade out)


* Bridge has some phrases from chorus and verse. Nice bass-line, probably a loop and probably synthesised.

-----------

Let`s Get Crazy

Intro - Verse - PreChorus - Chorus - Bridge
        Verse - PreChorus - Chorus - Break - Chorus (x3)


* Very enjoyable song. Nice intro, reminds me of GnR`s You Could Be Mine. Cool drum solo (break)

----------------

My Country I & II

Intro   - PreVerse(riff) - Verse
PreVerse-     Break      - Verse
              Break      - Verse
              Break      - Outro (fade out, then in, then ends up abrupt)


* Outro is a combination of break, verse and preverse phrases (if you listen to Surrender you`ll know what I mean). I love the fade out/in, also used in Kiss`s I Love It Loud, in Beatles`s Strawberry (with backwards I think), and Helter Skelter. And my own version of `About A Girl` :)

-----------

Good Times Are Now:

Intro - Verse  - Bridge
        Verse  - Bridge
Chorus         - Bridge
Chorus - Solo  - Bridge
Chorus - Verse - Bridge - Chorus`


------------

Magic Is Loose:

Verse             - Chorus
Verse - PreChorus - Chorus - Bridge
Verse - PreChorus - Chorus(tag/fade)


----------------

Interlude In Constantinople

Intro - Verse(instrumental) - Verse - PostVerse - Outro

* Intro and outro are mainly just studio noises. In the first there`s a kind of bleach and in the latter Rog starts humming something and closes the door

-------------

Airheads

Intro I - PreVerse - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
          PreVerse - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
Spacer  - PreVerse - Verse - Outro


* Outro is just the first phrase of the pre-verse, with different lyrics

---------------

Fun In Space:

Intro - Verse      - Chorus - Verse
        Verse      - Chorus - Verse
Intro - Inst Verse - Chorus - Verse - Outro


* Intro is just two measures of heart-beats. Outro is a very long section of synth and guitar noises all over the place, over the heart-beat and the drum loop.

20.Sebastian 18 May 2004 10:19

Strange Frontier:

Intro  - Verse - Chorus
         Verse - Chorus
Bridge - Verse - Chorus
         Verse - Chorus - Outro


* Outro finishes up with the chorus phrase. Third verse has different melody. Wonderful high vocals in the harmony at the end of fourth verse.

------------

Beautiful Dreams:

Intro  - Verse - Chorus
Intro` - Verse - Chorus
Bridge - Verse - Chorus - Intro``

* Cool Springsteen-esque low vocals

-----------

Man On Fire:

Intro  - Verse - Chorus - Connector
Verse - Bridge - Chorus - Chorus    - Connector
Inst Spacer    - Chorus - Connector`- Chorus    - Connector`` - Chorus` (inst) - Connector```


-------------------

Killing Time

Intro - Verse - Chorus
        Verse - Chorus(tag) - Orchestral Interldue
Intro`- Verse - Chorus(tag`)


* Very Freddie-esque Orchestral Interlude. As I know, he and John had a lot of input in this album, not neccesarily playing stuff (although Roger did mention in a Japanese magazine in 1984 that he considered John "the best rhythm guitarist" and had put him to play rhythm guitar in his album, he didn`t confirm or deny Fred`s or someone else`s possible input in keyboards), but arranging too. Perhaps Freddie helped Rog arrange the vocal harmonies in the chorus, they`re not completely parallel. Nice vocal by Fred in the interlude

To be continued...

21.PD 10 Jun 2004 20:35
Check out this song analysis series called "How Chord Progressions Really Work".
www.completechords.com

I learned from here, that what we have in the chorus of "Action This Day" is called Sequential Modulation. (see also in "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys, or "You Really Got Me" by the Kinks).

An Elton John reference:
www.eltonscafe.com
22.Sebastian 12 Jun 2004 12:32
Deleted by Sebastian
23.Sebastian 13 Jun 2004 14:15

Some "random" classics:

Dust In The Wind:

Intro - Verse - Chorus
------- Verse - Chorus - Solo
Intro - Verse - Chorus - Outro (Intro`)


Hotel California:

Verse - Verse - Chorus
--------Verse - Chorus
--------Verse - Verse


* First and last verses are instrumental. Verse section is very long (16 measures) and uses the six standard set of chords, only that instead of F#m it`s F#(7).

I`ll Be There For You (Friends Theme):

Intro - Verse - Pre-Chorus - Chorus
------- Verse - Pre-Chorus - Chorus
Bridge -Solo  - Pre-Chorus`- Chorus - Chorus


* Intro is a transposed form of the end of the chorus, repeated four times

Walk Like An Egyptian:

Intro - Verse - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Chorus - Solo - Whistled Verse`
Verse - Verse - Chorus`- Outro


Love Is All Around Me:

Intro - Verse - Chorus
Verse - Verse - Chorus - Verse (fade)


* Verse changes melody everytime, and the second is instrumental

Love Song (studio):

Intro   - PreVersex2- Verse
Pre Verse- Bridge --- Verse - Chorus - Outro


* Intro is very long and has an A B A form, Verse is also long and in the second cycle is a solo

Love Song (live)

Pre-Intro - Intro - PreVerse - PreVerse - Verse
------------------- PreVerse - Bridge --- Verse - Verse
------------------- Chorus --- Chorus --- Chorus- Outro


* Second chorus is a solo, as well as second and third verses

About A Girl:

Intro - Verse - Bridge
Intro - Verse - Bridge
Intro - Verse - Bridge
Intro - Verse - Bridge` - Intro`


* Intro=Instrumental Verse. Third cycle is all instrumental

Smells Like Teen Spirit:

Intro - Verse - Chorus - Bridge
------- Verse - Chorus - Bridge
Solo -- Verse - Chorus`


* Verse, Intro, Solo and Chorus are actually the same section.

High Enough:

Intro - Verse - Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
--------------- Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
---------Break - Solo - Pre Chorus`- Chorus - Chorus`


Beth:

Intro - Verse - Chorus
------- Verse - Chorus
Intro - Chorus`
------- Verse - Chorus - Intro`


Livin` On A Prayer:

Intro - Verse - PreChorus - Chorus
Intro`- Verse - PreChorus - Chorus`
------- Solo -- PreChorus`- Chorus (fade)


Spaceman:

Intro I - Intro II - Verse - Chorus
--------- Intro II - Verse - Chorus
-----------Bridge -- Solo -- Chorus - Intro II
* IntroII=Verse=Chorus, Intro I=Bridge


Space Oddity:

Intro - Verse - Verse - Chorus - Chorus - PostChorus
--------Break - Solo -- Chorus - Bridge - PostChorus
--------Break - Solo


* Intro repeats many times the first part of the verse (similar to CLTCL)

One (U2):

Intro - Verse - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Chorus
Bridge- Chorus - Chorus


* Intro=Instrumental Verse

Why Don`t You Get A Job

Verse - Chorus
Verse - Chorus - Bridge
Verse - Chorus`


* The bridge is very reminiscent of Obladi Oblada

Manic Monday

Intro - Verse - Chorus
------- Verse - Chorus
Bridge- Chorus- Chorus`


* Intro and Verse are over the same two measure progression over and over. Same is the chorus, except for the first and last measures

I Want It That Way (BsB)

Intro - Verse - Verse - Chorus
--------------- Verse - Chorus
--------Bridge- Verse`- Chorus` - Chorus - Chorus``

24.Sebastian 06 Sep 2004 15:57

Some Bee Gees Forms:

-----

Odessa:

Intro - Verse - Bridge - Chorus
Spacer- Verse - Bridge - Chorus
Several Variations of the Intro, ending with the sung part

* Intro has several subsections. There are mistakes in the double tracking of the lead vocal (some times they enter differently, sometimes one stays longer, etc).

Stayin` Alive

Intro - Verse - Chorus
Intro - Verse - Chorus
Bridge- Verse - Chorus - Bridge (fade)


*Bridge=Intro with lyrics

How Deep Is Your Love:

Intro - Verse - Chorus
------- Verse - Chorus
------- Verse - Chorus - Chorus (fade)


* Intro has some references to the chorus

IOIO:

Chorus - Verse - Verse`
Chorus`- Verse - Verse` - Chorus (fade)


* First chorus is done twice, with the good old trick of getting it ticker each phrase

Still Waters:

Chorus --------- Verse - Bridge
Chorus - Verse`- Verse - Bridge
Chorus - Break - Verse`- Chorus - Chorus


* First chorus a capella, getting supported at the end. Last chorus is losing the instruments gradually and ends a capella

25.Bruno 21 Sep 2004 21:12
Does anybody know what's the melody factor of November Rain, also, some examples of well known songs that have a melody factor higher than BoRap?
26.PD 22 Sep 2004 18:25
The net lead vocal melody content (referred as "melody factor") in November Rain is about 45-50 seconds according to my quick test. On commercial radio staions you won't find a song with even nearly as high "melody factor" as Bohemian Rhapsody's. It's something extremly anomalistic.
27.Sebastian 23 Sep 2004 18:26
Many people love Elton John. Many people hate him. But anyway it can be denied that he was/is such an important rock/pop icon. Reportedly he took about half an hour in writing each song, and weeks or months in the arrangements. Yeah, you can totally tell it by the results. This next comments are only about the harmony:

Candle In The Wind: Foru chords (I IV V and vi). I remember when Lady Di died, it really acffected me (I always thought of her as a wonderful person, as well as Mother Theresa, rip), and nobody believed me when I saw aon the news that she had died and told my family. Next day I bought the paper and on front page the headline was something like "UK lost a Princess", still they didn`t believe me until they read it closely. Anyway, that song was then re-re-re-issued as single (with a new set of lyrics) and I remember how much I was offended by it, I considered that to be a hedious oportunist act by Sir Elton. I still do actually. I still love the original version though, very good melody in one of his simplest songs.

Birds: 8 Chords (I, V-of-V, bIII, IV, V, VI, bVII, VII). As well as `Candle`, it starts in the dominant

Blue Eyes: 6 chords (I, ii, IV, V, vi, bVII). It starts in the subdominant

Border Song: 9 Chords (I, Idim, ii, V-of-V, III7, IV, V, vi). I quite like that one. It does start in the tonic

Can You Feel The Love Tonight (from Lion King): 6 chords (diatonic, except for ii which is replaed by II)

Crocodile Rock: I was never so thrilled about that one. Anyway it uses the same chords as Can You Feel Tonight (I, II, iii, IV, V, vi)

Funeral For A Friend: Probably my favourite from him. I`m not sure about the key but if it`s A, then the chords are: I ii II7 bIII III IV V bVI vi bVII, or at least that`s what I remember. The arrangement is wonderful indeed. It shows that he`s capable of great pseudo progressive pieces if he tries.

Goodbye Yellow Brick Road: 5 diatonic (all except iii) and some chromatic (bVII, bVI, bIII). I think either he or Billy (Joel) or both change sometimes Dm by D7, and the effect is nice.

Sacrifice: I always hated it. The song itself is a little nice but I think this guy wrote many, many, many better pieces that deserve more the classic status. Anyway, this one uses all and only the six diatonic.

--------

As for melody content, I think Dream On can be a candidate for the silver medal. Not sure though. That song anyway wasn`t a mammooth sales hit per-se, but it`s much more famous than a lot of songs which were
28.Bruno 25 Sep 2004 21:57
PD, I read your artice about Queen Anomaly in which you say you measured the melody factor of one hundred pop songs. Could you mail me those numbers? If yes, then please, bruno@post.htnet.hr, if no, then thanks anyway.
29.Sebastian 26 Sep 2004 07:06

Some comments about ABBA:

--------------------------------------------------

The Winner Takes It All:

| Intro (AA) | Verse (A`A`) |
| Chorus (A) | Verse (A`A`) |
| Chorus (AA)| Verse (A`A`) |
| Chorus (AA)| Verse (A`A`) | Chorus Fade (A...) |

A: | I       | vi      | ii      | V       |
A`:| I       | V       | ii      | V       |


The 1-6-2-5 cliche is used a lot by those guys. Part of their trademark sound. Note how the first chorus is instrumental, and the second one is halved.

--------------------------------------------------

Knowing Me Knowing You:

| Intro | Verse | Chorus |
| Solo  | Verse | Chorus |
| Solo  | Spacer| Chorus |


Intro:

| I  II  | -  ii  | -   IV | V      |

Verse:

| I  ii  | -  ii7 | vi  iii| -      | (x2)
| vi     | -      | V      | Vsus   |
| IV     | -      | vi     | -  (IV)|


Chorus:

| V      | -      | I      |
| V      | -      | I   IV | V       |
| I  iii | IV   V | I   IV | V       |
| I   IV | I  |


Solo:

| I      | vi     | iii    | IV   V | (x2)

Spacer:

| V   vi  | -      | (x2)

Nice tricks with prhases. I love this song.

--------------------------------------------------

Mamma Mia:

| Intro (AA) | Verse (BBAAC) | Pre Chorus (D) | Chorus (EEFE`E) |
| Intro` (A) | Verse (BBAAC) | Pre Chorus (D) | Chorus` (EEFE`) | Chorus (EEFE`E) | Outro (A...)

A: | I      | Iaug   | I      | Iaug   |
B: | I   V  | I      | IV     | IV     |
C: | IV     | -      | V      | -      |
D: | V      | -      | -      | -      |
E: | I      | vi     | bVII IV| ii   V |
E`:| bVII IV| ii  V  |
F: | I      | V      | vi     | iii    |


Some passing chords are omitted. Note the use of cliches (I>V>vi with descending bass)

---------------------------

To be continued...

30.PD 26 Sep 2004 11:22
Thanks Sebastian!

It's nice to read the functional harmonies of such pop-classics! Waiting for more.
31.Sebastian 26 Sep 2004 13:22

Fernando:

| Intro | Verse | Verse | Chorus  |
| Intro`| Verse |Chorus`| Chorus``|


Verse:

| I     | -    | -    | vi   | -    |
| ii    | -    | -    |
| V     | -    | - | I    | -    |


Chorus:

| V      | -     | I      | -      |
| V      | -     | I      |
| vi     |V-V-V  | V-of-V | V-of-V |
| V      | -     | I      | -      | * Chorus` ends here, chorus`` repeats this phrase
| V      | -     | * Chorus ends here, intro` overlaps


----------------------------------------------------------------

Happy New Year:

| Intro | Verse | Verse | Chorus |
        | Verse | Verse | Chorus`|
        | Verse | Verse | Chorus`| Intro` |


Intro:

| Isus2  | V/4   | Isus2  | V/4   |

Verse:

| I    | ii   | I    | ii    |
| IV   | I/3  | ii   | V9sus4|


Chorus:

| I     | V-of-vi | vi    | IV      |
| V-V-V | -       | ii    | V       | -       |
| I     | V-of-vi | vi    | IV      |
| V-V-V | -       | ii    | V       | -       | ii    | V    |


* In Chorus`, last phrase doubles the two last measures

-----------------------------------

Super Trouper:

| Chorus | Spacer | Verse  | Chorus` |
| Chorus | Spacer | Verse  | Chorus` |
| Chorus`| Bridge | Chorus`| Chorus (fade)


Chorus:

| I      | -       | -      | V       |
| V      | ii      | -   (V)| * Chorus
| V      | ii      | -   (V)| I       | *Chorus`


Spacer:

| I       | -       | vi      | vi       |
| ii      | ii      | V       | -        |


Verse:

| I      | iii      | ii      | V       | (x2)
| IV     | I        | IV      | I       |
| IV     | I        | V       | -       |


Bridge:

| IV     | vi      | ii   V  | I    V |
| IV     | ii      | -       | V      |


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tbc....

32.PD 26 Oct 2004 16:36
33.Sebastian 26 Oct 2004 17:02

Green Day`s Basket Case:

Form:

Verse - Chorus - Verse - Chorus - Chorus (as far as I remember, I haven`t heard the original for years)

Verse:

| I    V | vi   iii| IV     I | V         | (x2)

Chorus:

| IV    | V      | I     | -       | (x2)
| IV    | V      | I   V | vi      | IV     | V      |
| I   IV| V   vi | I  IV | V    vi |



The song is "clever" for being neo-punk, in matter of phrasing. Note that the I > IV > V > vi cliche is kind of popular in the last two decades. With Or Without You comes to my mind, also some other neo-punk things, including my big favourite Feeling This (Blink 182).

Green Day is widely considered to be the first or the biggest neo-punk band. Their main characteristics are the power chord driven songs, the alternate melodies, the use of riffs, instrumental breaks (not guitar solos), and the original titles. Like this one, which has nothing related to the actual song (moreover it isn`t mentioned in the lyrics). I happen to like Blink a lot, and some of their titles are "cool", like `Stay Together For The Kids`

--------

Now other two that I really like, both composed by Linda Perry (4 Non Blondes):

-

Spaceman:

Intro - Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
 AB   -  BB   -    BB      -   BB`

Spacer- Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
  B   -  BB   -    BB      -   BB`

Bridge- Solo  - Pre Chorus - Chorus - Outro
 AAA  -  BB   -    BB      -   BB``    BB...

A:  | V      | IV     | V      | IV     |
B:  | I      | IV     | I      | IV     |
B`: | I      | IV     | -      | -      |
B``:| I      | IV     | I      | IV     | -       | -       |


--

What`s Up:

Intro - Solo - Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
        Solo - Verse - Pre Chorus - Chorus
        Solo - 1/2 Verse


All are on the exact same phrase ( | I   | ii    | V      | I    |). Second verse has different melody.

So the "formula" of Linda was to put very simple progressions, create different melodies over the same, put verse - pre chorus - chorus sections (each time more agressive), and put references to drugs in the lyrics. And she was succesful with that. Having said so, I really love the songs, both those two and all the album; and I think Linda was an amazing and unique singer, something that complemented the "simpleness" of the music

pages 1